Sleep scientist and wellbeing expert Sabine Christelli has spent years studying what truly restores us and it turns out it’s far more than simply clocking eight hours. From the light we’re exposed to, to the nature we connect with (or disconnect from), and even the thoughts we take to bed with us, Sabine has made it her mission to help people experience deeper, more rejuvenating sleep.
Welcome to Eco Leaders, a curated interview series by Ecopia. Each conversation invites you to slow down and sit with people who are rethinking how we live, lead, and care for the natural world. Some of our guests have stayed with us here at Ecopia. Others are planning their first visit. But they all share something in common: a deep commitment to living with intention, heart and with a reverence for the land and its ability to restore us.
We hope these conversations inspire you to travel more mindfully, sleep more soundly, and build daily habits that reconnect you with your own rhythms… and with the world around you.
Who are you and what do you do?
I help people to optimise their sleep, whether they're in corporate or in resorts or whether they're parents. Literally everyone needs good sleep and I’ve made that my specialty.
Do you remember the moment you realised sleep was more than just sleep?
One in particular that stands out is when I myself was sleep deprived and I realised it wasn't just about getting more sleep, it was about realising it's about quality and the kind of sleep you get. When I looked at it in my post-graduate work as a PhD student, I could see all the brain frequencies we were recording and I studied widely the things that impact sleep and how important it is and then I realised this is a minefield of amazing empowering information that we can use to optimise ourselves. In the way we eat, the way we do relationships, the way our hormones are, the way we mentally integrate our lives. There's just so much there so that's when I realised it is so much that often people don't realise.
What’s been your most mind-blowing discovery?
There are quite a few. The intricacies of our biology are incredible, but the most powerful thing about sleep is that every night we get a free detox. The brain detoxes any waste products actually are released through the glymphatic system. Not the lymphatic but the glymphatic. So to me that is mind-blowing. Every night, the brain wants to clear things out and sort everything biochemically. But if we don’t give it that opportunity— if we decide, oh, I only need five hours, or I’ll just watch a bit of Netflix (which the brain then has to process as well)— we’re literally not giving our body the chance to do what it’s brilliant at doing, and what it’s designed to do and what we actually need.
What’s the biggest lie that we’ve been told about sleep?
One of the biggest ones is, “Oh, I need to get eight hours,” and that’s just not true. Everyone is different, and you can have eight hours of sleep and feel really groggy afterwards, or six hours and feel amazing. It’s not really about the time in bed; it’s more about the quality of sleep, how deeply you’re able to rest and let the body do its repair, which is what it does at night. That’s the biggest need. Some people say, “Oh, I’ve got eight hours,” or “I’ve got this and that,” but that’s not how it works. It’s your preparation and your depth that make all the difference.
You’ve worked with athletes, high performers, CEOs, what do they get right about sleep?
They don’t see sleep as a luxury; they see it as something that is really important for how they perform. It becomes a priority. I’ve noticed that the people who thrive the most are those who say, “I recognise how important it is, and I’m going to practise that, even if it’s just ten minutes here and there.” That’s what they do very differently from the rest of society, which is missing out.
What do you struggle with the most when it comes to sleep?
Overthinking and having children will naturally make you feel, wow, I’d better think about everything. Running a business can create that tendency too, but just being a citizen of the world. Thinking about what’s happening with the planet or politics can have the same effect. I recognise it, and I know how to change that: to rewire myself, and to have something in place either to prevent it or to catch it when I wake up at night.
You have hundreds of sleep hacks. What are your top three for anyone watching this?
The top three are free, easy and vital, and that is: try to get morning sunlight, and try to reduce the intensity of artificial light exposure at night. The other one would be to have a small routine of some sort linked with sleep. Even the smallest thing, like “I’m brushing my teeth, I’m winding down, I’m starting to do a different type of breath that is relaxing.” So that’s a really easy one that you could use. Another one would be just thinking about what you’re grateful for before you go to sleep, rather than thinking about, even subliminally, what the problems are that you might need to fix. Focusing on what’s working well in your life leads to much better sleep, and I think the world needs that at the moment more than ever.
Why do these things lead to better sleep?
We basically inhibit our ability to feel safe at night. And when we don’t feel safe at night, looking at it from a really primal angle, if we’re out in the wild it means we don’t have a deep sleep, because we’re kind of looking out to solve a problem. A saber-tooth tiger could be jumping on us in the forest. So these days, it could be the news you watched or an email you got, and all of that is dysregulating the nervous system’s ability to feel safe and actually have a deep sleep.
And then you might be lying there, but either you wake up easily, or you’re not getting the depth of sleep. It’s the way society is wired right now, and the illusion that if we sleep less, we are somehow achieving more. But it’s not true. That’s why most people are burning out, having mental health issues, or ending up having to take a long break to recover from this compressed time of not getting good enough sleep. In the end, it doesn’t work out.
What boundaries would you recommend we put in place around our phones?
It really depends on the person. Being a mum, you often need access to the phone, or being a surgeon, or any number of roles. But the more boundaries you can create, the better. So I would certainly have boundaries in the evening and in the morning as much as possible. Maybe someone can do it at lunchtime: “I’m going to have lunch without my phone.” It’s going to feel strange for a lot of people. You’ll think, “I should be reachable, I’m used to scrolling” but there has to be a point where we decide to tackle it and say, “I can do this,” and realise it actually feels good.
So, how should we prepare for sleep at Ecopia?
If you’re staying at Ecopia, I would say utilise the fact that you can really connect with nature. Nature is the biggest reminder and integrator of our normal circadian rhythms, and when you’re here you have a wonderful opportunity to wake up with the sunrise, if you can and feel like it, and to wind down when the sun goes down. Keep your light gentle in the evening and start to connect with that internal circadian rhythm. A lot of people are fully detached from that. You know, they’re going online or working until late. When you’re in a place like this, don’t just treat it as a holiday to recover, but as a chance to have a deeper experience and take it home with you. Aligning with the environment is so important. We are deeply biological, and your body will respond just by doing that. You won’t even have to think about it.
If you built that habit at Ecopia and then took it home with you, what would happen?
You’ll naturally feel more drawn to do the same at home because, obviously, you might have a backyard, a beach or a forest nearby. You might decide, “I’m going to take an evening stroll,” or “Before I rush into my day, I’m just going to sit in my garden or on my balcony and embrace the light, the nature and all those healing properties that create rhythm in your life. Starting here could be a great beginning. You've already changed your neurology because you started. So you're going to feel more confident going home and doing it. And just decide that once I've come here, I'm going to keep some of those habits going and I'll get back home. That is really powerful.
What are the bigger flow-on effects of improving our sleep?
A lot of people might think, ‘oh, I really need sleep now’. The truth is, when you sleep well, it builds up over your whole life. It's going to affect what you feel like in five years and ten years. It's a bit like brushing your teeth. You can get away with it here and there, but the more you don't look after your teeth, the more you're going to have decay in some form or shape. And so, when you look after your sleep, you're basically looking after your future. And not just that, but your mental health, your relationships, and your ability to have a quality life rather than just pushing through. You're actually able to be present, be your best mentally, physically, biologically, and thrive.
Why is it that time in environments like Ecopia are so healing for our sleep?
Because we are part of nature. We seem to think we are separate, and we can just go into a building and flash on the artificial lights and go against nature. There isn't a single human that doesn't eventually realise it, it feels good. The biochemistry responds, your whole construct of who you are as a human, to feel that we belong, that there is actually an inherent peace that you can tap into; we always remember it in nature.
Tell us how the microbiome is affected by sleep?
They call it the gut-brain axis, and it affects how you feel, the neurology, whether you're able to relax, and it can really shift the way you perceive the world. The best thing you can do is breathe in forest air, ocean air, and we all know it, don't we? It's like you get here, and you're taking a big breath, and all those things that we innately know — and thank goodness we can remember it still, before we forget with all this technology and indoor living.
How else can we ensure we have a restorative stay at Ecopia?
I would say keep it really simple. If you have a complicated life, try to really say to people, “I’m going off the grid,” as much as you can. And then really enjoy being spoiled, having access to food. You don’t need to go and find it. You don’t have to do much. There is an outdoor bath. Depending on where you stay, there is an indoor bath where you can see the kangaroos, and you put your epsom salts inside, which they provide, which is amazing. You can light candles here, which is gorgeous. And yeah, just totally enjoy all the offerings here.
I feel that when you’re conscious about it, you don’t just turn up and think about it. Maybe on the boat over here, the ferry, or maybe when you book it, really make a list: “I really want to detox from this activity, that activity, that activity while I’m here,” and reset myself, rejuvenate, and then carry that forward into the next chapter afterwards.
Finally, which three people would you bring to Ecopia?
There are a lot of people I could bring, but if I could bring just three at once, straight away I think of my children. They’ve had nature experiences, they enjoy nature, but the younger generation, they are so much more exposed to the busyness of life. So much more exposed to technology, and I feel they need it more than ever. We still remember more of what it’s like without, or with less, but I feel they need extra immersive time to really play and connect, to walk around in nature, see the kangaroos, watch the clouds rolling in, maybe climb a tree, or just sit in stillness and find that the stillness is full of gorgeous sounds, much more beautiful than any Instagram or TikTok, I have to say. All of that is a reminder. I would love to bring my children first, of course.If you’d like to learn more from Sabine, you can visit her website here, and follow her on Instagram and LinkedIn.
